Shall we then assume two sorts of persuasion,-one which is the source of belief without knowledge, as the other is of knowledge? And which sort of persuasion does rhetoric create in courts of law and other assemblies about the just and unjust, the sort of persuasion which gives belief without knowledge, or that which gives knowledge? Clearly, socrates, that which only gives belief. Instructor's Note: colossal blunder! Then rhetoric, as would appear, is the artificer of a persuasion which creates belief about the just and unjust, but gives no instruction about them? And the rhetorician does not instruct the courts of law or other assemblies about things just and unjust, but he creates belief about them; for no one can be supposed to instruct such a vast multitude about such high matters in a short time? Come, then, and let us see what we really mean about rhetoric; for I do not know that my own meaning is as yet.
Gorgias (dialogue) - wikipedia
Then, if you approve the question, gorgias, what is the answer? I answer, socrates, that rhetoric is the art of persuasion in courts of law and other assemblies, as I was just now saying, and about the just and unjust. Then let me raise another question; there is such a thing as "having learned"? And there is also "having believed"? And is the "having learned" the same "having believed and are learning and belief the same things? In my judgment, socrates, they are not the same. And your judgment is right, as you may ascertain in this way:-If a person were to say to you, "Is there, gorgias, a false belief as well as a true?" -you would reply, if i am not mistaken, that there. Well, but is there a false knowledge as well as a true? No, indeed; and this again proves that knowledge and belief differ. And yet those who have learned as well as those who have believed are persuaded?
He persuades, socrates,-there can be no mistake about that. Again, if we take the arts of which we were just now speaking:- do not arithmetic and the arithmeticians teach us the properties of number? And word therefore persuade us of them? Then arithmetic as well as rhetoric is an artificer of persuasion? And if any one asks us what sort of persuasion, and about what,-we shall answer, persuasion which teaches the quantity of odd and even; and we shall be able to show that all the other arts of which we were just now speaking are artificers. Then rhetoric is not the only artificer of persuasion? Seeing, then, that not only rhetoric works by persuasion, but that other arts do the same, as in the case of the painter, a question has arisen which is a very fair one : Of what persuasion is rhetoric the artificer, and about what? is not that a fair way of putting the question?
And then he will be sure to go on and ask, "What good? Let Gorgias answer." Now I want you, gorgias, to imagine that this question is asked of you by them and by me; Gor. What is there greater than the word which persuades the judges in the courts, or the senators in the council, or the citizens in the assembly, or at any other political meeting?-if you have the power of uttering this word, you will have the physician. Now I think, gorgias, that you have very accurately explained what you conceive to be the art of rhetoric; and you mean to say, if i revelation am not mistaken, that rhetoric is the artificer of persuasion, having this and no other business, and that this. Do you know any other effect of rhetoric over and above that of producing persuasion? No: the definition seems to me very fair, socrates; for persuasion is the chief end of rhetoric. Now I was it to know about rhetoric in the same way;-is rhetoric the only art which brings persuasion, or do other arts have the same effect? I mean to say-does he who teaches anything persuade men of that which he teaches or not?
"Certainly he will answer, "for is not health the greatest good? What greater good can men have, socrates?" And after him the trainer will come and say, "I too, socrates, shall be greatly surprised if Gorgias can show more good of his art than I can show of mine." to him again I shall say, who. "I am a trainer he will reply, "and my business is to make men beautiful and strong in body." When I have done with the trainer, there arrives the money-maker, and he, as i expect, utterly despise them all. "Consider Socrates he will say, "whether Gorgias or any one-else can produce any greater good than wealth." Well, you and I say to him, and are you a creator of wealth? And who are you? "A money-maker." And do you consider wealth to be the greatest good of man? "Of course will be his reply. And we shall rejoin: Yes; but our friend Gorgias contends that his art produces a greater good than yours.
Formal Analysis of Plato s Gorgias - pdxscholar - portland State
And if he further said, "Concerned with what?" I fantasy should say, like the clerks in the assembly, "as aforesaid" of arithmetic, but with a difference, the difference being that the art of calculation considers not only the quantities of odd and even numbers, but also. And suppose, again, i were to say that astronomy is only word-he would ask, "Words about what, socrates?" and I should answer, that astronomy tells us about the motions of the stars and sun and moon, and their relative swiftness. You would be quite right, socrates. And now let us have from you, gorgias, the truth about rhetoric: which you would admit (would you not?) to be one of those arts which act always and fulfil all their ends through the medium of words? Words which do what? To what class of things do the words which rhetoric uses relate? To the greatest, socrates, and the best of human things.
That again, gorgias is ambiguous; i am still in the dark: for which are the greatest and best of human things? I dare say that you have heard men singing at feasts the old drinking song, in which the singers enumerate the goods of life, first health, beauty next, thirdly, as the writer of the song says, wealth honesty obtained. Yes, i know the song; but what is your drift? I mean to say, that the producers of those things which the author of the song praises, that is to say, the physician, the trainer, the money-maker, will at once come to you, and first the physician will say: "o socrates, gorgias is deceiving you. He will reply, "I am a physician." What do you mean? Do you mean that your art produces the greatest good?
Of discourse concerning diseases? And does not gymnastic also treat of discourse concerning the good or evil condition of the body? And the same, gorgias, is true of the other arts:-all of them treat of discourse concerning the subjects with which they severally have. Then why, if you call rhetoric the art which treats of discourse, and all the other arts treat of discourse, do you not call them arts of rhetoric? Because, socrates, the knowledge of the other arts has only to do with some sort of external action, as of the hand; but there is no such action of the hand in rhetoric which works and takes effect only through the medium of discourse. And therefore i am justified in saying that rhetoric treats of discourse.
I am not sure whether i entirely understand you, but I dare say i shall soon know better; please to answer me a question:-you would allow that there are arts? As to the arts generally, they are for the most part concerned with doing, and require little or no speaking; in painting, and statuary, and many other arts, the work may proceed in silence; and of such arts I suppose you would say that they. You perfectly conceive my meaning, socrates. But there are other arts which work wholly through the medium of language, and require either no action or very little, as, for example, the arts of arithmetic, of calculation, of geometry, and of playing draughts; in some of these speech is pretty nearly co-extensive. And yet I do not believe that you really mean to call any of these arts rhetoric; although the precise expression which you used was, that rhetoric is an art which works and takes effect only through the medium of discourse; and an adversary who. You are quite right, socrates, in your apprehension of my meaning. Well, then, let me now have the rest of my answer:- seeing that rhetoric is one of those arts which works mainly by the use of words, and there are other arts which also use words, tell me what is that quality in words with. And then he would proceed to ask: "Words about what?" and I should reply, words about and even numbers, and how many there are of each. And if he asked again: "What is the art of calculation?" I should say, that also is one of the arts which is concerned wholly with words.
Plato s Gorgias - selections - comments
I am glad to database hear it; answer me in like manner about rhetoric : with what is rhetoric concerned? What sort diary of discourse, gorgias?-such discourse as would teach the sick under what treatment they might get well? Then rhetoric does not treat of all kinds of discourse? And yet rhetoric makes men able to speak? And to understand that about which they speak? But does not the art of medicine, which we were just now mentioning, also make men able to understand and speak about the sick? Then medicine also treats of discourse?
Issues : What is save the nature and function of rhetoric? Can rhetoric properly be called an "art?" does rhetoric impart knowledge or merely belief, and thereby constitute a false, or at best an insincere, way of knowing? Rhetoric, socrates, is my art. Then i am to call you a rhetorician? Yes, socrates, and a good one too, if you would call me that which, in Homeric language, "I boast myself." soc. Very good then; as you profess to be a rhetorician, and a maker of rhetoricians, let me ask you, with what is rhetoric concerned: I might ask with what is weaving concerned, and you would reply (would you not? with the making of garments? And music is concerned with the composition of melodies?
descendants that they also are soldiers who must not desert the ranks of their ancestors, or from cowardice fall behind. Text link: Plato's divided Line - information Philosopher. Domain: m, link: ml, description: Information Philosopher is dedicated to the new Information Philosophy, with explanations for Freedom, values, and Knowledge. Text link: How to read xml from a file by using Visual C Domain: m Link: description: nov 15, 2012 Describes some sample steps to read xml from a file. Text link: Tartaros fairy tail wiki fandom powered by wikia domain: m Link: m/wiki/Tartaros Description: Tartaros tarutarosu) was one of the three most powerful Dark guilds in the world, forming a third of the balam Alliance, alongside Oración seis and Grimoire heart.1 load more. Topics, illustration of Claims about/for/against Rhetoric, illustration of Socratic (Q A) Method of division and Classification (of creating binary or dichotomous categories for advancing/constraining discussion - also the. Dialectic method of inquiry illustration of the problem and process of definition.
Wikipedia.org, link: description: Gorgias ɡ ɔr dʒ i ə s greek: γοργίας owl ɡorɡías) is a socratic dialogue written by Plato around 380. The dialogue depicts a conversation between Socrates and a small group of sophists (and other guests) at a dinner gathering. Text link: Sophists Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy. Utm.edu/sophists description: The sophists were itinerant professional teachers and intellectuals who frequented Athens and other Greek cities in the second half of the fifth century. In return for a fee, the sophists offered young wealthy Greek men an education in aretē (virtue or excellence thereby attaining wealth. Text link: Phaedrus (dialogue) - wikipedia. Wikipedia.org, link: description: The Phaedrus f i d r ə s ancient Greek: φαῖδρος, lit. 'Phaidros written by Plato, is a dialogue between Plato's protagonist, socrates, and Phaedrus, an interlocutor in several dialogues. Text link: st josephs catholic high school.
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Plato's Gorgias - literally translated, with an introductory essay, containing a summary of the argument is an unchanged, high-quality reprint of the original edition of 1864. Hansebooks is editor of the literature on different topic areas writings such as research and science, travel and expeditions, cooking and nutrition, medicine, and other a publisher we focus on the preservation of historical ny works of historical writers and scientists are available today as antiques. Hansebooks newly publishes these books and contributes to the preservation of literature which has become rare and historical knowledge for the future. 1, sparkNotes, review: The most popular website for book notes. SparkNotes was created by students for students, and their summaries are accessible and extremely well-written. Besides the usual plot overview, chapter summaries, and character analysis, SparkNotes differentiates itself with a section discussing themes, motifs, and symbols. Gorgias summary - gorgias (dialogue) - wikipedia. Load more, top url related to gorgias summary. Text link: Gorgias (dialogue) - wikipedia.